Comments on: I Believe

By: Lola

Lola — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:53:19 +0000

Andrea, I love it. Unlike all the others I looked at on the link you posted (admittedly, I might not have read all, but certainly most), the secular humanists don’t get any of the premium charged for the plate. So where DOES it go? You made me curious, so I check out PA’s website. Although I wasn’t able to find what the additional costs were, there was a list of plates available : http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/license_plates/plate-special_org.shtml
and a stats page that listing how many of each were issued: http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/pdotforms/stats/Pennsylvania%20Active%20License%20Plates.pdf

I didn’t see any that were promoting any religions, except those associated with colleges, the bulk of which I would assume are Catholic.

There were, however, a couple that left me thinking WTF? Ohio State Alumni and Delware State University tags are available . Whodathunk there’d be anybody who would want them, let alone enough of them to be worth the tooling up effort. Well, obviously somebody did, and rightly so with 270 and 263 active plates out there in 2005!

By: Andrea

Andrea — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:14:15 +0000

Bill, many of South Carolina’s specialty plates do include a charitable donation, but several do not. One example is the Secular Humanist plate, which does not include any donation to the Secular Humanists, but does cost $30 over the standard fee. See here for the assortment of SC plates (minus the new one).

By: Lola

Lola — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:09:46 +0000

Flying Spaghetti Monster? Oh do tell me they have one. With a pirate patch too? I’d MOVE just to get one of those.

By: Crimebill

Crimebill — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:10:52 +0000

Charlene, I’m pretty sure when you buy a “Protect Wildlife” or “Fight Breast Cancer” license plate, you pay a premium because the state donates that portion of the money to that cause — whereas I doubt they’d even attempt to charge a premium for “I Believe” plates so they could donate it to… Where WOULD they donate the money?

So the question is whether the I Believe plates cost less than a Jewish, Muslim, Flying Spaghetti Monster or Atheist plates would cost.

By: Charlene

Charlene — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:16:19 +0000

Hunt, the license costs the same as a regular license plate, but MUCH less than a vanity license plate supporting any other religion or set of beliefs. Therefore it is a subsidy.

There’s no real way to disagree with that: it’s a vanity plate, yet you don’t pay for it being a vanity plate because Christians are better than everyone else and deserve special treatment just for “believing”. And if they don’t get extra-special treatment, being treated far better than anyone else and getting things for free that other people have to pay for, they’re being “discriminated against”.

By: Hunt

Hunt — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:52:26 +0000

Question: does this license plate cost more than a regular license plate? If so, is the state really subsidizing it? Furthermore, since the state allows private messages on license plates, you can’t tell just by looking at a plate whether the state sponsored the message or not. I think this probably is an Establishment Clause violation, but it may not be as simple as it appears at first glance.

By: Derek

Derek — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:36:14 +0000

In civilised countries, all license plates are the same, usually white (sometimes yellow) with the license number clearly visible on them. People are free to decorate every other part of the car, but the plate is standard-issue.
Get a bumper sticker if you feel the need to tell everybody what you believe.

By: Steven Hunter

Steven Hunter — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:53:09 +0000

Crime Bill: Ah, but the problem is that by *not* choosing a religious plate it can be inferred that the driver is not a christian (since, to hear many people these days, you must constantly remind people that you are a christian).

Nicole: Again, voluntarily adding religious paraphernalia to your car is your choice; you “know the risks” as it were. But by actively choosing to *not have* a religious symbol is a different matter.

Patrick: Yes, but the constitution doesn’t prohibit that.

I think it might be an interesting thing to get some custom license plate frames that make the plates appaear to read (after the “I Believe” part):
-”that this license plate violates the separation of Church and State.”
-”in Gay Marriage.”
-”in Evolution.”
-”I’ll have another beer.”
etc…

By: LostInTarnation

LostInTarnation — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:58:26 +0000

Howabominable (aka Lindsey ^_^): I’m sorry if I offended you. Had I chosen to answer the question seriously, I’d agree that separation of church and state protects both.
But a certain element of the dominant religion in this country seems to feel oppressed unless it expresses itself in every public venue possible. This license plate seems to embody that. In my state you can’t drive for more than five minutes before running across a religious-themed personalized license plate — Christian, of course. And yet the ones that the state bans are vastly disproportionately tags like ATHEIST or WICCA, etc. etc.
It’s not the religion I object to, it’s the exceptionalism. I find this mentality mockable regardless of the context — in this case it just happened to be Christianity.
Okay I’m shutting up now in case I’m just digging myself a deeper hole. I’m sorry, really. I don’t want to spoil anyone’s fun coming here.

By: Howabominable (aka Lindsey ^_^)

Howabominable (aka Lindsey ^_^) — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:40:41 +0000

I agree with Winter. While I am a Christian and some of these responses have made me roll my eyes, the government should not be involved. If someone wants a custom religious license plate they should have the right to display it, but not at the expense of the government and the tax-payers. That being said, just because the legislature for this state is making a stupid movie doesn’t make it appropriate for people here to bash Christians in general. I don’t bash atheists and wouldn’t criticize them for their beliefs if there were a similar post involving them. Show some respect.